The patient’s Personalized Health Portfolio is the center of care at Wellmax. Dr. Cosgrove and his staff work diligently with the patient to create the health portfolio which ultimately becomes the living story of their health. Past events are noted but the document is updated by a careful medical history and exam followed by a comprehensive array of structural, functional, and biochemical tests. This organized and comprehensive approach allows Dr. Cosgrove and his staff to gain special insight into that patient’s risks and presymptomatic conditions. Dr. Cosgrove and his staff work on a roadmap or plan of next steps and lifestyle improvement for the patient. This process is supported by a psychologist, exercise physiologist, and nutritionists to help sustain positive change. The flow of information and creation of a network of care providers is what lies in the future.

The entire interview is available as a pod cast.

Dr. R: I’m here with Dr. Dan Cosgrove who is the founder of Wellmax Center for Preventive Medicine at the LaQuinta Resort and Club in La Quinta, California. Dr. Cosgrove has really been a pioneer in the integration of imaging, human performance and genetic and protein biomarkers. It’s truly a pleasure to have Dr. Cosgrove with us today. Dan, if you could just share with us how you came up with the concept of Wellmax and what led to developing your center.

Dr. C: My background is internal medicine. Then I got boarded in emergency medicine for a while when I was young. I liked the excitement of the fast pace as well as getting to see problems across the spectrum from pediatrics to gynecology to older people with heart disease. You just see everything – musculoskeletal problems, whatever it is, but you also get people raw off the street. In doing that our ER group was set up as I think a lot of doctor’s internal medicine practices are set up if they are working for a big company, that we were graded or evaluated on how many patients we saw per hour, how many dollars we charged per patient and then how many dollars we charged per hour. They would set up this curve every month and, of course, 50% of us would be below the curve and those people would then try harder to basically move the meat faster and see more people more quickly. Ultimately what you end up with is doing as little as possible for as many people as possible.

Dr. R: Yes.

Dr. C: And I think that after a few years of that I needed a kind of personal redemption to really have the joy of doing it right and not feeling like I’m cutting corners and moving too fast. Secondly a kind of professional approach where I could really apply the technology and the knowledge that’s out there. We are now in this information age, and I think there is a completely different ability to respond to complaints of patients and to do proactive care than there was when I was in medical school in the early 80’s. It was all these big text books that come out every few years. Now there’s a tremendous amount of information and ability to retrieve the information that wasn’t there before and I wanted to have the opportunity to embrace that and to apply that to individual patients.

Dr. R: Great. So this was a huge transition for you to go from emergency medicine where everything is very abbreviated and real time to what you’re doing now with a very comprehensive prevention approach. When did this happen? What year did you found Wellmax?

Dr. C: 1997. So it’s been over 10 years now. There were two kinds of patients that I would see that I realized were not getting their needs met. One of them and the obvious one that people in preventive medicine always are aware of is the guy who just turns up yellow because he’s got jaundice because he’s got colon cancer metastases to his liver or the person that turns up with the sudden unexpected heart attack and its unexpected because nobody was measuring anything other than symptoms so that until the day that he got chest pain, he was deemed well. I think the second kind of patient is the person whose sort of the walking wounded where – I just saw a guy today. He said on a scale from 1 to 10, he would put his energy at a four. Well, it used to be nine and just in the last couple of years it kind of went down to four but he looks good. He’s still active and he did see his doctor in another state and the guy did a CBC and a Chem. 7 and did a cursory physical exam, listened to his heart and lungs and said, “Well, I think you’re okay. You’re just working hard”. I realized that in the ER, those patients were getting short shrift and what we would say to them was “well, if its been going on for several month or a year that you’ve been weak, that’s not an emergency problem” so we charge for the visit and we send them to the internal medicine guy on call and that guy is seeing 40 people a day or something and he gives them a few minutes and they don’t have the opportunity to do more. So it occurred to me a lot of this is driven by the economics, that you get a fixed fee for seeing a patient whether you spend 15 minutes or an hour for the most part.

Dr. R: Right.

Dr. C: So what the system has driven people to do is use EMRs that make it appear that they did a comprehensive exam where they get 8 out of 12 review of systems thing and get it done in 15 minutes. I asked myself, “would patients pay more for somebody to take more time and to do tests even if those tests were not covered by insurance or considered to be deemed “medically necessary”?” and it turns out that they will. It’s not necessarily a high percentage of patients on a given street or block, but throughout the population a lot of people have the discretionary income, they have the need and the desire to pay for more and truly receive more, and have a doctor spend more time. And of course for a doctor it’s a dream job because I get to – instead of seeing how quickly I can get him out the door, I sit at the table and think, “before I get up here, what else can I do for this patient?” It’s really a pleasure to practice medicine that way.

Dr. R: It really is a paradigm shift. I agree. I think so often it’s sort of like that conveyor belt medicine - try to do as little as possible to handle the situation just putting a patch on something and rarely having the opportunity to really delve into the root of what is the underlying problem for that patient. Now you have the opportunity to be as thorough as you need to be and I think that is a wonderful paradigm shift. Was it difficult making that transition, connecting with those patients that really value this approach? Was it a difficult transition to go from as fast as you can do it to this more comprehensive approach?

Dr. C: It certainly was difficult in terms of cash flow because I went from making good money to going negative where I was spending more than I was making with the overhead of the clinic. The first patient came in and she was about 50 years old and asked me about hormones and menopause and should she take Premarin and Provera or not and I’d read a little bit about it but I had to go do a lot of homework. Even in doing that I discovered that there is no one overall 100% consensus answer and those were the days before the Women’s Health Initiative. Now, as you probably know just in the past few months there have been a slew of articles talking about the benefits of estrogen. As we might have predicted, the pendulum is now going to move back the other way. It’s just an enormous amount of knowledge just to address that one problem well. So in a kind of holistic primary care setting there is a whole spectrum of problems. In a way it was almost like I had to get educated in a new specialty. I was already boarded in internal medicine and then studied for emergency medicine boards, but it was far, far more work to become where I felt confident in this personalized medicine. It’s still an ongoing challenge unlike certain kinds of specialties where you’re kind of a one trick pony and you just do a couple of things and learn those and that’s what you do. This is far more intellectually challenging -

Dr. R: Absolutely.

Dr. C: In addition, even though I’m seeing fewer patients, I think in many ways it has more liability because the buck stops here.

Dr. R: Right, exactly. Now if you could just explain what would be the components of your standard approach now in terms of history and physical, imaging tests, blood tests, human performance testing? So if you’re seeing somebody for the first time, what would be the basic approach for the typical middle-aged man?

Dr. C: To me, my approach is to build a health portfolio and the reason I’m doing that is to have a methodical approach, to have a place for everything and everything in its place. The reason I’m doing that is I’m really looking for modifiable risks for aging. It’s early detection for existing disease but its also early detection of processes of disease where we might not call it disease. For example, a person whose coronary calcium score is elevated such that 90% of people have less than they have, but its still a very low score let’s say if they are 40 years old, any calcium for a man at 40 probably puts them in the top half at least and whether or not that is cardiovascular “disease” or arteriosclerosis, still, he is maybe on a track that is being caused by a modifiable risk factor that can be addressed, it can be changed so we can actually change the course of where they are going. Heart disease, I think, is one of the easier ones to visualize, but maybe they are poorly absorbing iron or B12 and these kinds of things might have minimal or no symptoms and still, if caught early, can make a huge difference in their life and makes the evaluation a priceless one.

Dr. R: Absolutely.

Dr. C: So what we do specifically is to create a health portfolio. This is really just a series of check lists. There are structural tests which include the imaging ones. For example, DEXA density is a structural test. I just had a guy who had very low bone density and then it led to us doing a 24-hour urine calcium and it turns out he’s losing calcium, he’s kind of peeing out his calcium. It would be many years before that would be caught. It would never have been discovered without us being alerted to the problem through this structural measure even though the structural measure per se didn’t cause any problems in his life. And then the other imaging or structural tests would be lung CT. It’s been demonstrated that there is valid cause for doing a lung CT and getting early detection of lung cancer. For heart, there is coronary calcium and we often do the CT angiogram as well. Of course colonoscopy is a kind of structural test to see what’s there. Then there are all the functional tests which start with blood pressure and pulse. A cardiac treadmill is checking the heart by seeing how does the EKG change and we like to do a VO2 max there and see what is the person’s cardiovascular fitness.

Dr. R: Right.

Dr. C: In selected cases get an echocardiogram which combines structural and functional aspects of the heart. We also methodically evaluate patient’s symptoms. I think one of the most important is to just sit and listen to the patient. Then after they’re done sharing what’s important to them, we could methodically go through and ask them lots of questions, including how many bowel movements a week do you have. It’s amazing how many people will say, “per week” and it comes out to be 40 bowel movements a week or 3 and they didn’t mention that as constipation or diarrhea because they’d had it for a while and it didn’t occur to them to be a big problem. Anyway, so there are symptoms like that and then, of course, signs presented on physical exam. Melanoma is probably the most obvious of those or a heart murmur or something.

Dr. R: Then based on those initial findings you might tailor the rest of the evaluation, right?

Dr. C: Now, we aren’t doing echocardiogram as a part of the standard health portfolio. I have it on the list of the health portfolio so that after I build it I can sort of look at it and agree with the patient, “okay, your last echocardiogram was never and we’re comfortable with that because your other structural and functional tests are okay and you have no murmur on the exam and you’re doing well”, but a case could be made even for them to still do one and, of course, if they have a murmur or other findings, or they have some rhythm problems on the treadmill, then that would lead us to do additional tests that would then have an even greater predictive value.

Dr. R: Right. Then in terms of blood tests, what kind of genetic screening or biomarker screening do you recommend? Do you have a standard approach or is it very much individualized?

Dr. C: We definitely have a standard approach, because we want to complete the health portfolio of information gathering on all patients. But in doing so, we collect so much data from different sources — such as lab, imaging, personal symptoms, and so forth — that we can then build algorithms that become highly individualized. Our approach should be methodical but also be providing personalized medicine and individualized medicine. For example, a spot on the lung in a person who smokes. There was a guy we just saw this week, he had two packs a day for 40 years so he’s got an 80 pack year history of smoking and he had two 5mm spots. Now these spots, if they were found on a 40 year old nonsmoker, would have a very different likelihood of being cancer. And we can even further add to that. We start with some knowledge or information just from the data from the lung CT, but we’ve built it up by adding the data of their background, that they’re a smoker. Then I think we can do even more so with the genetic data. I know Navigenics has a model, I know it’s at least 20% of people who turn up with heart disease don’t have any of the principal risk factors like smoking, diabetes, hypertension. They were showing that with certain not uncommon gene variants that can be easily detected, a person’s risk can exceed that for the traditional risk factors. You can see then that by combining these that you have a tremendous amount of information. But what I was going to say is I think an argument can also be made to just kind of shotgun and the Biophysical is a great example of that. It’s got 250 blood tests and a lot of the blood tests I might not think we need immediately in seeing the patient. But we get the data and then I think anybody who has done a lot of Biophysicals discovers important issues that could not have been anticipated. For example, there was recently a patient whose serum B12 level was 200 and we wouldn’t have guessed that. They weren’t complaining overtly of neurologic symptoms and everybody feels a little forgetful compared to how they should be, but for that person… for us to pick that up and give them B12 for decades that may have been missing, for that one person, this simple discovery could be priceless. Another example is ferritin, you know, iron. There are people who are iron overloaded and people who have too little. Celiac disease is another important disease to screen for. Then there are a lot of tumor markers, and a lot of these are tests that are in the Biophysical that help provide really early detection, because issues can be discovered before there are any symptoms. The fact that there are no symptoms doesn’t mean that it’s any less important or valid.

Dr. R: Right, exactly. Now, do you try to accomplish the history, the physical, the human performance, the imaging in a one day period? How does it work for an individual who is from out of town?

Dr. C: I’ve actually been kind of evolving in that because there’s a guy with an imaging place in LaJolla and his background is gynecology and so he is very comfortable with women’s issues and women’s hormones, but not so much with a lot of other things. We can actually use a combination of a questionnaire and lab and the imaging that he does there to start building a substantial part of a health portfolio and with the questionnaire you know and then a phone interview you can really get up to speed on the symptoms. The physical exam I think should not be neglected but in reality when you have everything else, you know if I think maybe they have a big liver, the first thing I do is go look at their CT and ultrasound and see you know, how big is it?

Dr. R: Right.

Dr. C: If I think their prostate is a little big, what I really want to know is what is their post void residual, how much urine is left in their bladder after they empty it which we get routinely on ultrasound and I want to know how big is the prostate and what’s their PSA and other lab values that are relevant. So anyway, I guess what I’m saying is we have an executive physical program, but really we’re just trying to make the process pleasant and easy to get all this information. So this week we have some people that are all from out of state and have come a pretty long ways and we’re based at a resort so it’s kind of fun for them to just check in to the hotel and the hotel likes us because we put heads on beds for weeknights. Our patients tend to check in on Sunday night when everybody else is leaving and then we start first thing Monday morning often with obtaining the fasting blood work and then getting the history and physical. When they start getting tired in the afternoon, they can lie down and get all the ultrasounds and the DEXA. We do send them out for the lung CT and CT angiogram. Then we can do the fitness stuff here. It’s a lot to pack into one day, but the fact is I could spread it out over a couple of weeks or I could have a lot of it actually outsourced and get the vast majority without ever seeing them. I’m actually intrigued by this idea of building the health portfolio and then looking at the whole as greater than sum of the parts. So for example, if a patient complained of some bloating and some irregular bowel habits and then we look at that in light of their celiac antibodies and stuff like that. To see one thing in light of another gives greater meaning to both.

Dr. R: Oh yeah, absolutely. Then is there a moment during this evaluation when there is sort of a comprehensive wrap up? Where you say okay we’ve got everything in and we’ve explored the things that we needed to explore based on your questionnaire or the other findings and here it is in one comprehensive wrap up?

Dr. C: Well, we do it in two stages. When they finish, just before they leave I try to go over all the information that I have. Just before this interview a man was here for 2 or 3 days, his plane was leaving and I was able to show him just using these worksheets from the ultrasound a couple of important findings and to go over some things. Another guy that’s here, he was just on his way to get his lung CT and his coronary calcium, but his NMP, his urine test was positive so I called and asked them to continue the CT and get the kidneys and the urinary track and everything. NMP is a screening test for bladder cancer, and like a lot of these tests it may have a “false positive”, but as you pointed out with your nice essay in your blog about mammograms, we shouldn’t be mislead about false positives because its an opportunity to pick something up early.

Dr. R: Right.

Dr. C: Our ultrasound didn’t show anything on his kidneys but I thought we’d get an even better view so we called and quickly added kidney imaging to his CT evaluation. Then the Biophysical takes a couple of weeks to come back and so does the Navigenics [genetic panel]. We are currently using the Navigenics and they do provide a lot of genetic information but it takes a couple of weeks to get that stuff back so we set an appointment for the person 3 or 4 weeks later….

Dr. R: …To do a wrap up on the phone just as a follow up?

Dr. C: Yeah. So 2-4 weeks after their initial evaluation, when all the tests have returned, we have another interview or “consultation” that is included in their program, and this can be done in person or by telephone, usually as a “WebEx.” They also receive a personalized but methodical letter from me at that time, so we’re reviewing a document together that the patient can read again or share with other health providers. That additional time after their medical evaluation here also gives me time to kind of look at it all and say, what does that mean? What does that mean in light of this, and it’s nice for me to have that extra time because a lot of times it’s not that obvious or that easy to make recommendations. Many times the recommendation has to be a kind of list of alternatives. It becomes almost philosophical what the patient might want to do about a given finding. They might want to just recheck it again in 6 months or they might want to take immediate action to work it up further and I want to provide them the best information I can to help them make that personal decision.

Dr. R: Right. For those who are out of town, do you try to stay in touch with them or do they have a way of contacting you so that they can sort of stay on the program. I mean if you outline here is the steps to achieving better health, how do you keep them on track especially those that are out of town?

Dr. C: We have a combination of things. We can offer full “concierge medicine” with 24/7 access and comprehensive ongoing healthcare. Alternatively, many patients choose for us to maintain their Personal Health Portfolio, and keep in touch, although they’re ongoing medical care is provide elsewhere by others. We have what we call Patient Wellness Advocates and these are people who are clinically savvy, often nurses and they don’t even necessarily have to have an RN, but they call and follow up and we actually invest a lot of time for these people. A lot of times a person will go and have a subsequent test or just a test based on some new symptom or something that they get in another city, another place, another doctor. We just quickly get that information and add it to their health portfolio. We monitor their health portfolio, stay up with it and then we are staying up with the patient and saying, for example, “what did you ever do about this?” or “did those symptoms resolve by following up?” I think it’s pretty well known that all patients just love a call from the doctor a few days later saying how are you feeling now? We were trying to leverage that benefit and value through these wellness advocates. Then we also have a lady who has a PhD in psychology. She’s a psychologist or health coach and she calls and often works out other issues with them and then we have a psychiatrist and he’s comfortable doing ongoing phone things for those people who need it. Our fitness and nutrition person likes to do it because they are kind of contracted in a way so if they can get the patient to be comfortable with telephone stuff and they get paid for it, then they will do it. Some of the complexity has been in a tracking system. To be honest I just paid for a big EMR that they promised all kinds of stuff it turns out it doesn’t have. We’re actually using ACT, a contact management system, because unlike the EMR, you can attach to the patient’s note whatever the follow up is, whatever we’re going to do. For example, we agree to check back with them in 6 weeks again about some symptoms or maybe they promise to get a breast MRI and we write for it or a lab test. Well, it’s easy for them to kind of just disappear off the radar screen. It’s earmarked to call them again and it comes up on the calendar even if we’re not thinking of that individual patient on that day. In addition, we can look up that individual patient at any time and it’ll be on there. Then thirdly, the task is on a list for certain individuals here (Patient Wellness
Advocates) that are assigned those tasks to follow up so it’s on their list as well. So it’s in three different places that all link so that way we actually can do a lot of health care long distance because it’s really about information and data management. If this, then that, and fill in the blanks, and making sure that you take action. Applying this approach using healthcare employees purposely chosen in part because they are “big hearted” can create tremendous value for each individual patient.

Dr. R: Well it sounds like a wonderful program and I really like how you’ve integrated nutrition and exercise physiology as well as behavioral change. We all know that that’s sometimes the hardest thing to get people to change the way they go about their lifestyle. I think that’s really cool that you have professionals that are really trained in behavioral medicine to help you with that.

Dr. C: I’ve got to tell you, we don’t make any money on that. As a business or whatever, that’s a very tough business. The easiest thing to do is the high end quick apparent comprehensive snap shot executive physical and then send them out and say, “Go see your doctor. I’m not going to take care of you. I can’t write a prescription because I’m just doing these snap shots. There is no ongoing care.” There is no ongoing taking responsibility for the patient’s health and there is no measure of how you change their life over time because it’s just a snap shot. The fact is the most fundamental stuff is trying to get their head on straight and not eat when they’re stressed or smoke or bad behavioral things and sometimes those behavioral things have scientific/medical issues like calorie density but more often it has to do with psychological and social things. It’s hard to even break even on doing that kind of stuff. I think by adding it in over time it really makes a tremendous difference in people’s lives. It makes a difference to us because we want one of our measures of success to be, “how did the patient change over time?” rather than “how happy were they after one day?” because everybody’s happy when they first leave here because we’re at a resort and we make it pretty fun. They usually feel good unless we tell them some pretty terrible news. They feel good when they leave, but I think that’s a too easy of a measure of our success.

Dr. R: Well I think putting it all together as you have, Dan, creates that overall great value. And I think that’s really one of the many reasons Wellmax has such an outstanding national reputation for quality. I think it’s really all of those elements working together to improve the lives of the patients you care for. I wanted to ask you, we’ve just returned from the Aspen conference, the Aspen Summit on preventive medicine and it certainly opened my eyes to what’s out there, but I wanted to ask you Dan, how do you see things changing in the near future with regards to what you’re doing at Wellmax?

Dr. C: You mean how do I see the direction of preventive –

Dr. R: Right, as you look into your crystal ball,

Dr. C: At Wellmax specifically?

Dr. R: Both in general and also maybe even some things that you might even be incorporating in the near future at WellMax.

Dr. C: Well, I think that what I’m seeing is that there have been kind of two parallel tracks that need to work together better. One is the preventive medical “snapshot,” often called the “executive physical” and the other track is high quality ongoing medical care, sometimes provided as “concierge care.”

Executive physical programs often take a snapshot of the patients’ health, and then send them back to their own doctor. This is especially practical for patients that live out of state. But if their own doctor in the first place wasn’t taking the time for them and wasn’t doing the tests that may have been necessary, then, although I think it has value to do the annual snap shot, I think the more complicated but much higher value thing is to continue to advocate and continue to help the person maintain and utilize a health portfolio to improve their wellness. Too often, a problem is identified that won’t receive proper attention when the patient returns to his or her doctor. For example, if a man’s testosterone level were discovered to be really low. Now a days testosterone has become more mainstream, but there was a long time there where if a person’s testosterone is really low you had a choice of prescribing testosterone to a guy who lives out of state or sending him back home empty-handed for “local follow-up,” knowing that he doesn’t have a doctor or his doctor is not going to do anything, and say he’s fine. Then there are also some of the health, nutrition and fitness things and so I think finding community based resources and then networking these and then using the power that we have with the information age to share with the local doctor, “here’s what I found and here’s what you could do”, but still not cutting him out of the loop. I envision more collaboration so that we inform and empower the local doctor, making sure he or she is still the primary provider so that we become kind of catalyst in the complicated and often labor-intensive job of information management. I see that as being a role that we at WellMax could play. When I was in Aspen, there were a lot of doctors attending there that really struck me as good hearted, well meaning doctors. They expressed the same frustration and dissatisfaction I felt 10 years ago, where they are uncomfortable just doing a limited amount of tests that insurance approves and they know that they have patients that are willing to pay for more and now they need to find their way in combining the two tracks I described above, this sort of emerging specialty of early detection medicine, and secondly, providing more aggressive ongoing medical care: doing more for each patient but shifting the costs to the patient and then allowing this consumer driven medicine to kind of take care of itself and pursue quality. I think there is a whole role for that. Those doctors that came to the conference are looking for ways that they can network with us. So the ideal future would be for us to help support them with information and algorithms. I envision a future in which many like-minded doctors, working together and networking, that we can begin to create a new level of medical care with different standards, built not upon most cost effective, or most efficient in caring for large numbers of people, but rather, creating standards about providing the best medical care. We could establish suggested standards or lists of stuff about what else can we do and what should we measure. For example, I was saying that we don’t do echocardiograms. There’s people who have told us that we should do an echo as a baseline or do a brain MRI as a baseline and I think that we’re going to start seeing more forums now where we can kind of argue these things out and that we’ll all learn more and allow us all to be better practitioners and the patients are the ones that are going to profit the most from it.

Dr. R: I think that’s a wonderful vision of where we are and where we need to go. I particularly like the idea of creating virtual networks with other physicians with your center acting as a catalyst and giving a road map perhaps to the local physician so that they can be there to support the patient as they are making these important changes in their lives. I think it’s a wonderful vision Dan. I really appreciate you joining us today and sharing with us all the experience that you’ve had for now over a decade at Wellmax. You have created an outstanding center and truly been a leader in this field. I look forward to following your career at Wellmax for years to come.

Dr. C: Thanks George. It’s an honor to be interviewed by a guy who was managing a huge cardiology practice and then saw the value of these biomarkers and early detection tools and now working with Biophysical and doing this blog with the pod cast. You’ve really become a leader in this whole field.

Dr. R: Thank you very much Dan. I think we share the same passion in prevention. I look forward to working with you for years to come.

Perhaps the greatest distinction of the Rose Center for Preventive Medicine is the manner in which Dr. Abrams and his colleagues present information to their patients. “This is the teachable moment” Dr. Abrams explains. He uses many PowerPoint slides and computer animations to graphically explain relevant anatomical and physiological issues to his patients. Imagine the connections that patients make when they view their own radiographic images side by side the physician’s teaching slides. Plenty of time is dedicated to this part of the experience. The patient leaves the center with a much clearer understanding of their health issues and thus becomes a true partner in their own care.

The entire interview is available as a pod cast.

Dr. R: I’m here with Dr. Rick Abrams who is the founder of the Rose Center for Preventive Medicine in Denver, Colorado. Rick has really been a pioneer in creating the optimal model for wellness evaluation and it is a pleasure to interview him today. Rick, if you could just tell us a little bit about what brought you to the point of founding the Rose Center for Preventive Medicine. Tell me a little bit about what lead up to that.

Dr. A: George, I practiced internal medicine for 30 years in a traditional small group practice. I always felt like we were doing the best we could with the time we were given and the tools we were given to deal with acute illnesses, but not to counsel people and do a careful yearly examination. Over the years it became increasingly evident to me that my time was so compromised by the volume of patients I needed to see and the size of the practice that I was spending less and less time with people particularly on the prevention side which is something that I’ve always been interested in. My passion was maintaining optimal health and preventing illness or identifying risk factors at an early stage when we could do something about it and I simply did not have enough time to meet those objectives. So, 8 years ago in conjunction with Dr. Jim Ehrlich founder of Colorado Heart Imaging, I began seeing patients in a setting where I could spend hours instead of minutes with people taking very detailed medical history, performing an unhurried, detailed physical examination and using more advanced laboratory testing and imaging with the goal of performing the most comprehensive exam possible. This was a toe in the water for me but very quickly I realized that I was able to identify risk factors at an early stage when we could actually do something about them. I also realized that patients were extremely satisfied with the quality of their exam and the time spent both in doing the exam and teaching people about their health and anatomy and physiology.

Dr. R: And then that lead to putting a Center together for this purpose?

Dr. A: Yes. Approximately 3 years ago I saw how productive this whole approach to health was and became increasingly interested in prevention. I partnered with Rose Medical Center in Denver to develop a full service facility specializing in preventive medicine using more advanced testing and imaging and spending ample time with every patient.

Dr. R: Right. Rick, Having gone through that experience which has been extensive, what would you say would be the elements or the components of the optimal wellness evaluation?

Dr. A: Well, the first element is perhaps a bit ironic given the fact that technology plays a big role in our program. The first element I would say is the basic detailed history and physical examination. I spend much more time talking with people about their health habits, their emotional concerns, nutrition, exercise, even personal safety. So it’s old fashion in the sense that the basic low-tech medical history and physical remains the foundation of our approach to prevention.
Dr. R: Yes. Please go on..

Dr. A: The second component of our program is laboratory testing. We use more advanced biomarkers, including a more detailed lipid profile, looking for people who have risks that can be addressed before advancing the process or atherosclerotic disease. A third component of our program is imaging. We’ve made extensive use of coronary artery calcium scoring. We currently use ultrasound to evaluate the neck and carotid arteries–intima media thickness, a full vascular flow study and thyroid ultrasound. The other component to the exam or at least the whole process is the time spent with people reviewing all of this information and teaching them about their health.

Dr. R: Right. And I think that is such a critical part of this whole thing of bringing in all of this information together into a package that you can give to the patient. I think some people refer to it as the moment of truth or the moment of awareness when it really all comes together for them. If you could just elaborate on that piece of this evaluation because I think that this is so critically important.

Dr. A: Sure. One of my observations over the years is that among our many failings in health care, one of them is that we don’t spend enough time educating people about human anatomy, physiology, and prevention. I have found that people are really hungry for that kind of knowledge. I find that most of my patients want to collaborate in their health care rather than be told what to do. I found very quickly when I started this program that the educational component was perhaps one of the most important things we do. It really speaks to the role of physician as teacher.

Dr. R: Absolutely.

Dr. A: It’s appreciated by people who go through the program and it’s also very satisfying on the physician side to be able to take the knowledge that we possess and teach people who are concerned about optimizing their health. With that goal in mind, we have developed an extraordinary number of visual teaching materials. I find that most people respond better to diagrams and animations, all kinds of teaching tools that we’ve developed in trying to understand their anatomy and process of disease and where in that process disease can be prevented. No matter how sophisticated the people we see in this program are, they still lack that knowledge and hunger for it. Among the best compliments I receive at the end of an exam with someone is when he or she say to me, “Gee, I wish you would have been my high school biology teacher”. That says to me that I’ve struck a cord that I’ve been able to get some information across in a way that’s going to be meaningful as people follow the recommendations that we provide for them and stay involved in their own health.

Dr. R: Yes. And I think that is such a wonderful program of doing that. When you compare how it goes now going through this evaluation and this teaching experience with your patients as compared to what it was back when you were in regular group private practice, do you find that the patient’s are now more knowledgeable, more motivated, better partners in taking care of their own health?

Dr. A: Absolutely. People understand that when we recommend a change in diet or prescribe a medication, why that recommendation is being made, it makes more sense to them. Compliance in our particular center is a non issue. People understand why if we’ve recommended a statin for them, why that recommendation has been made, what they can expect to see in response to taking that medication and if they have concerns about taking a medication or they have concerns about side effects we’ve discussed with them, instead of simply throwing the prescription away or stopping the medication without telling me. They call and we discuss other options if a change needs to be made. So practice is much more collaborative and it’s all based on knowledge, knowledge of their health and knowledge of disease processes.

Dr. R: Right. That must be such a gratifying experience for both parties. Both as the physician taking care of the patient but also for the patient themselves to have, as you said, a collaborative relationship with the physician.

Dr. A: Well, I certainly hope it is for patients and that’s the kind of feedback we get and I can tell you in 30 years of practice, I’ve never been happier. I come to work smiling and I go home smiling that I’ve really accomplished something for a smaller number of patients, no question about that. I’m not seeing the volume of people that I did in a traditional practice but for the people I see, I can feel satisfied as I can possibly be that I’ve done my best work and that they’ve understood everything that we’ve done and made a real difference in people’s lives.

Dr. R: Absolutely. Let me ask you about this in terms of prevention. You know there is a lot of press about the human genome and genetics and that sort of thing, what role do you see that playing in prevention at the present time?

Dr. A: At the present time I think we’ve just beginning to incorporate medical genomics into clinical practice; particularly in stratifying the risk of several cancers. But I think this area is about to explode. My prediction is that through contemporary medical genomics we will be able to truly offer more a personalized approach to health risk mangement.
Dr. R: Right. Now, I think that we’re entering into this more personalized medicine approach, which I think is really exciting. Now, if you could look into your crystal ball, could you give us your vision of what the future of health care and prevention wellness screening is going to be all about?

Dr. A: My hope is that the future will build upon what was excellent about the past. The patient-physician relationship which has been eroded by the pressures of modern health care can, and must be, restored through the effective use of technology. The future will incorporate advanced testing; safe, effective imaging; physiologic testing and counseling. Ultimately, health care should be collaborative among the patient, his or her primary care physician, and the various other members of the healthcare team. In order to achieve these goals adequate time is critical. The missing link remains the ability to pay for personalized medicine. By emphasizing prevention I’m confident we will save money and remain healthier and more productive as a nation. Furthermore, it is my vision that preventive medicine and information management will provide more satisfying and productive careers for those of us who have chosen to remain in primary care.
Dr. R: Right. I think that this is a great vision of the future and it sounds like that medicine is going in the direction of becoming more personalized, more collaborative where the physician and the patient are really working together to achieve the same goal of better health for that patient and where the patient is more knowledgeable, has the tools delivered I guess on the internet, their personalized health record and so they are really more empowered to partner with you in taking care of themselves.

Dr. A: It’s been interesting that the number of phone calls I receive in the evening or on weekends has diminished dramatically as I help people understand more about health. For example, they understand that viral illnesses doesn’t require. Health education is central to what I’m doing today and what I’d like to see get even better in the future.

Dr. R: Right. Well, that’s wonderful. I think that that is a great way to end this conversation, is that at the core of it, it is really increasing the personalized knowledge that the patient has and empowering the patient. I think that is a wonderful vision of the future and I’m confident that with leaders such as yourself, Rick, that this approach is going to come to fruition. Rick, I really appreciate your spending some time with us this morning to discuss these important issues and look forward to seeing you again soon.

Dr. A: Thank you very much. I enjoyed it.

In our interview Dr. Fein describes a variety of innovative ways in which the 64 slice CT scanner is being used at PLC. 64 slice CT scanners are typically used for coronary artery disease screening with coronary artery calcium and coronary angiography. PLC however also uses this important diagnostic tool to evaluate all of the major blood vessels as well as visceral fat which is significantly related to metabolic syndrome risk. The scanner is also used for virtual colonoscopy which may replace standard colonoscopy someday.

As for the future, Dr. Fein sees a greater use of inflammatory blood based biomarkers as well as genetic markers to greater personalize a patient’s risk and response to therapy.

The entire interview is available as a pod cast.

Dr. R:  I’m here with Dr. David Fein who is the founder of the Princeton Longevity Center.  Dr. Fein has  truly been a pioneer in prevention over the last decade and has really contributed a great deal to what we know about the optimal way to perform wellness evaluations.  Dr. Fein, could you just tell me a little bit about Princeton Longevity Center. 

Dr. F:  Sure George.  Basically Princeton Longevity Center was founded in about 2002 and seeks to incorporate the latest in technologies for not just early detection of disease, but really to aim at being predictive about what diseases you might be at risk for in the next 10, 15, 20 or even more years than that.  On top of that, we also aim to provide our clients with the tools that they need in order to be able to try to modify that future.  The typical annual physical leaves most people with advice pretty much turned them out to “you need to lose some weight and exercise more”.  While those are important components for most people, the problem still remains in how do I do that?  How do I come up with something that I can fit into my lifestyle, something that is going to be doable for me that is actually going to change my risk of what’s coming down the road?

Dr. R:  Right.

Dr. F:  Basically, that’s really our major goal is to not just tell you what you might be at risk for down the road but also how we can help you to change that future in ways that are going to be doable for you.

Dr. R:  Excellent.  That’s a very important part of it.  So it’s not just a one shot deal, it’s really more of a process or a program.

Dr. F:  Exactly.  Really, this kind of preventive medicine has to be thought of more almost as being analogous to financial planning. 

Dr. R:  That’s a great metaphor for this. 

Dr. F:  It’s really not something you can do as a one shot deal.  It’s basically a lifetime commitment to deciding what your goals are and how are you going to get from where you are now to reaching those goals down the road.

Dr. R:  Right.  Now, if you could just explain to me and to our listeners, what would be the major components of a comprehensive evaluation?  Let’s consider an individual whom you’ve never seen before, what would those components be?

Dr. F:  First, we start off with a very very in depth medical history.  The history and the physical exam still remain the cornerstone of what we’re doing.  We bring in all sorts of additional technology but unless you really have the time to sit down with somebody and find out not only what are their current aches and pains and complaints, but also really what are all the medical problems they’ve had in the past.  What’s all the issues and family history, their social history, etc. you can’t really get a good sense of where they are now and where they are going.  We also utilize 64 slide CT scanner that gives us the ability to look at the vasculature, we can see actually if there is any coronary artery disease or atherosclerosis that is starting up.  It also gives us a tremendous tool for doing cancer screening.  We can pick up many tumors at a very very early stage before they have become symptomatic, before they have spread, before they might be detectable on other tests.  We do a treadmill stress test which not only helps us to further evaluate cardiovascular status, but also gives us a good handle on aerobic fitness levels.  We can do body mass testing that includes being able to determine not only how much muscle mass and body fat you have, but also in combination with the CT scan, allows us to even look at how much of that is visceral fat which is the fat inside the abdomen as opposed to the fat under the skin.  That’s something that’s increasingly being recognized now as a very important predictor of not only cardiovascular risk but also diabetes, high blood pressure risk down the road.  We do a complete fitness assessment looking at everything from joint mobility and individual muscle group strains to poor stability and individualized exercise prescriptions.  We do a full nutritional assessment that includes a multi day food diary that the client fills out before they come in and then we can fine tune what are the nutritional recommendations, not just in general but really specifically geared to what are the individual problems that we find in the rest of your testing.  We do a complete set of blood tests.  We do pulmonary function testing, hearing, vision screening, EKG, etc.  All the things that would otherwise be a typical component in an annual physical.

Dr. R:  That really is very comprehensive.  Would the great majority of that be accomplished in one visit? 

Dr. F:  Absolutely.  In fact the goal is to get everything done in one day and in one location.  We also can even offer too as part of that such things as virtual colonoscopy to do colon cancer screening.  We can do a CT angiography which allows us to get essentially the same data as one might get from a cardiac catheterization.  So we can really get very detailed and in depth here, but the goal is to try to make it as convenient as possible for the client, but also the point is that way all of our various professionals, the physicians, the nurses, the exercise psychologists, the dietician, have this tremendous amount of data that we can synthesize all at once and really be able to put together an individualized plan based on all of these different findings. 

Dr. R:  That is fantastic.  So the patient would have this evaluation done in one day and at the end of the day it’s all sort of pulled together by the physician and they leave with a program, a prescription for better health?

Dr. F:  Exactly.  We sit down with these patients at the end of the day.  The physician will spend about an hour or so going over all of the various results from that day’s testing.  Not only explaining what those results mean, but then also trying to put it together into an overall coherent package here that says, “Here’s where you’re at now.  Here’s where we think you’re going to be 10 years or 20 years from now.  These are the things that are great and here are the things that might potentially be a problem.  Here’s what we think you ought to do about it”.  Now they end up leaving our center with a pretty thick book almost about an inch thick with all of their test results.  All of the various reports and recommendations that they can take home with them and start working on it that very night.  I think that’s really a very important point in any kind of executive exam like this is that we find that most people when they leave our center are really pretty charged up and pretty enthusiastic about getting to work on making some changes.  They have often found it a very illuminating day and leave here with a sense that they really understand now why certain things might benefit them if they change them.  If you don’t give them those tools to start working on that day, you lose a terrific opportunity.  Sending people their results a month later, by that point, the enthusiasm often has waned and the results tend to sit in an envelope unopened on the kitchen table for 3 months.  We think it is very important to give you all of this information to start working on that night. 

Dr. R:  It’s that teachable moment when it all is brought together.  Right?

Dr. F:  Exactly.

Dr. R:  Tell me about the role of genetics testing or genomics, that’s been in the news a lot, where do you see that fitting into a wellness evaluation? 

Dr. F:  It’s a fascinating field and one that’s moving along very very rapidly and certainly is getting some attention lately.  I think there is really going to be two ways that it ends up fitting into this kind of preventive medicine.  On the one hand as a predictive tool for being able to look at genetic mutations and variations to be able to say, “You have the gene and you are at risk, for example, for diabetes or for hypertension or for atherosclerosis or a number of other diseases that we can modify and try to prevent, osteoporosis, for example.  I think the other role that is very likely to emerge with this is being able to individually tailor treatment.  For example, with statin therapy.  Giving people cholesterol lowering drugs to modify the progression of atherosclerosis.  We know that we don’t get 100% protection.  We definitely see a significant reduction in risk but some people seem to respond to it better than others.  It is very possible in the not to distant future we may be able to start looking at genetic markers that will tell us whether you are likely to respond to that treatment or to a different treatment and allow us to really optimize your therapy in advance rather than waiting to see did it help or didn’t it.

Dr. R:  Right.  So it really is delivering on this promise of personalized medicine.

Dr. F:  Exactly.  I think also it’s going to ultimately end up having some very interesting promise in terms of being able to look back.  Once we start doing genetic screening like this, then we now start collecting data over a period of years with people and then can go back and look at what else we could have predicted might be going on with you.  I think what we’re going to see is an explosion over the next few years, an increasingly wide spectrum of ways to utilize this kind of data to individually customize your medical care.

Dr. R:  Right.  Exactly.  I wanted to follow up on something that you mentioned with your imaging about vascular imaging because a lot of centers just focus on the heart, the coronaries, that’s basically it.  What you’re doing with imaging is really very innovative – vascular imaging, visceral fat imaging and so on.  If you could just elaborate just a little bit more on the vascular imaging, abdominal, visceral, fat imaging, I would be very interested in that. 

Dr. F:  The visceral fat is particularly interesting.  Basically for those who are not terribly familiar with the concept.  While the fat under the skin, the subcutaneous fat is generally considered to be relatively metabolically inactive and therefore is not really associated with all of the increased health risks that we worry about from being over weight.  The visceral fat, the fat inside the abdomen does seem to be strongly linked with the risk of diabetes, heart disease even certain types of cancers because it is metabolically a very active form of fat.  With the CT scan we can actually measure exactly how much of that fat is present and that’s something that you can’t tell simply from getting on a scale or from measuring even things like percent body fat and body composition.  Whether you’re 200 pounds and it’s all under your skin and subcutaneous or whether all present is visceral fat, either way you are 200 pounds.

Dr. R:  Right

Dr. F:  The only way that you can really measure this is by doing the scan.  Then we can actually measure the volume of visceral fat that is present and that allows us then to really go back and tailor what recommendations we are giving you.  If we have somebody who has a high level of visceral fat, they are very likely to be at risk for diabetes to have problems with insulin resistance.  That is somebody who we are likely to counsel them that low carb diets and specific exercise recommendations are going to be very healthful.  There are even some nutritional supplements that we would recommend that are all designed to overcome the insulin resistance that visceral fat indicates is starting to develop.  That’s one of several different things that we use.  For example, trying to decide if you are better off on a low carb or a low fat type of diet.  It really has some tremendous utility in individualizing what we do with the patient.  As far as the vascular aspect of this, what we find is that in a number of patients they may not yet have any significant evidence of coronary artery disease.  Their stress tests are fine.  They have no symptoms and even their heart scan does not show any significant amounts of atherosclerosis in the coronary arteries.  But very often you’ll see that they are already starting to develop atherosclerosis down in the lower portion of the aorta, in the iliac arteries, the arteries down in the pelvis and while that in and of itself may not present tremendous short term risk, it is still an indicator that they have started that process of making significant atherosclerosis.  We know that that means in the not too distant future it’s very likely that it’s going to start showing up in the coronary arteries.  That gives us an even further advanced warning of what is starting to develop and allows us to institute treatment even that much earlier and hopefully prevent it from ever even getting to the coronary arteries or to the carotid arteries and that way keeping heart attack and stroke risks from getting to a level where it is already become significant before we treat it.

Dr. R:  Right.  That early treatment is really a great opportunity and besides as you mentioned, atherosclerosis is a systemic problem.  It’s not just in the coronaries; it’s in all the vasculature. 

Dr. F:  That’s exactly right.  The problem is that everybody is so focussed on treating their coronary arteries they are missing the boat here and missing the fact that it really is a systemic disease.  So putting a stent in a coronary artery treats one problem but it hasn’t treated the whole problem.

Dr. R:  Right.  Exactly.  What about the role of more expansive or comprehensive blood testing.  Where do you see that going?

Dr. F:  I think that’s also going to be something that’s increasingly important as we move forward.  Not only in terms of the ability to predict future problems, but also I think we are finding that our ability to aim earlier and earlier in the disease process for our detection point is also going to be evolving.  All of the new markers that people are working on looking for various cancer markers for example, can we find these diseases rather than imaging techniques, are there blood tests that will allow us to detect these things earlier on.  Looking at inflammatory markers as ways of further stratifying our cardiovascular risks.  Can we try to determine if there is a patient who even though they don’t look like they have extensive coronary artery disease.  We have seen patients with relatively little disease on their heart scans, but yet they have still gone on to have heart attacks or other cardiovascular events.  These tests looking at particularly things like inflammation may end up being helpful for us in deciding – even though you don’t have what would otherwise be considered to be very elevated risk, these tests indicate you might benefit from more aggressive treatment. 

Dr. R:  Right.

Dr. F:  Same thing also in the other direction.  We see a lot of patients who are out there being aggressively treated.  They are on statin therapy and other drugs and yet it turns out they are not really at very very high risk and we may be able to simply treat those people with lifestyle changes instead.  I think it’s going to be useful in both directions.

Dr. R:  Right.  Exactly.  Again, maybe it will help us in that promise of a more personalized medicine approach.  One final question.  If you could look into your crystal ball and give us sort of a vision of the future of health and wellness screening.

Dr. F:  The biggest problem we run into with crystal balls is that I can tell you where I think things will be 5 years from now or 10 years from now.  I think it’s going to turn out that we dramatically underestimated how much things are going to change in a relatively short period of time.  The things that we are seeing coming right over the horizon at this point are already absolutely fascinating and amazing.  Whether it’s the ability to do more advanced screening with various blood tests and markers of disease processes or the genetic components of being able to individualize therapy and predict where you’re going to be at down the road.  But even know we are currently talking to some groups that are interested in starting to look at doing stem cell harvesting because of the field of regenerative medicine that’s coming in the next few years to.  The ability to start the growing of new body parts in the event that something starts to go wrong.  I think what we are going to find is that 10 years from now, our ability to not only predict what is going to happen to you down the road, but also to prevent that from happening.  We’re really going to start seeing some really traumatic changes in not only in life expectancy but I think in terms of the ability to remain active and functional and enjoying your life as you get in the later years is really going to be phenomenal. 

Dr. R:  That really is exciting.  I just got into my 50’s and I hope that all of that is going to come together soon enough. 

Dr. F:  I’m sure for our kids it’s going to be terrific.  I so would like to think that you and I are both young enough that we’re going to be able to still take advantage of those things.  I really think the key is then for the next 5-10 years we have to work really hard at staying in good shape so that as these things come down the road we can really take full advantage of them. 

Dr. R:  This has been a wonderful opportunity to delve into some important topics and I really appreciate your sharing your thoughts with us.  Dr. Fein you’ve really been a leader in this area and I wish you the best going forward.

Dr. F:  Thanks a lot George.  It’s been my pleasure.

Dr. R: Thanks a lot.

The “false-positive” issue is a different story. 
Consider the numbers:  1000 women get a mammogram

• 100 women are called for a follow-up because of an abnormal finding
• 10 of these women are biopsied
• 2.5 have cancer

That’s a 97.5% false positive rate. 

My security system has a false positive rate worse than that, and I still turn it on every night.

To me, the only number that is worth paying attention to comes from Robert A. Smith, director of cancer screening for the American Cancer Society.  He found in a study that mammography screening reduced breast cancer deaths by 63%.  End of story.  Get a mammogram.

When SNP’s were first identified, they promised to change the world. That was when we thought there would only be a few hundred SNP’s that would lead us to the promised land of personalized medicine. Last time I checked, though, there were over 10 million SNP’s that had been patented. That has destroyed their value, because there are good SNP’s and bad SNP’s. Unless you look at all 10 million of them, you won’t know if there might be a good SNP that can compensate for a bad one. Here, too much information became a bad thing.

23andMe looks at 600,000 of the SNP’s, but cautions you not to act on any of the information. Why? Well, with the exception of the well characterized mostly single-gene conditions like Cystic Fibrosis and Huntington’s disease, mutations do not guarantee the disease will ever develop. At best, they increase your chance of getting the disease. But think about this. If the entire population has a 1 in a thousand chance of being afflicted with a given condition, and the presence of a mutation increases your chance by 50% (an unusually high number), then your odds increase from 0.1% to 0.15%. That’s not worth worrying about.

But here’s the fun part. If you’ve always wanted to blame your parents for your “runny” earwax, 23andMe provides the ammo you need. For a great review of this test from an enthusiastic non-scientist, go here.

Visit 23andMe website

Everyone should do this test at least once after the age of 45.

In our discussion, Dr. Ehrlich suggested developing packages for patients with a certain risk or interest.  These would be heart and vascular package or a stroke prevention package.  He also stated that it is important to combine imaging with important blood biomarkers.  This approach has led to Dr. Ehrlich’s interest in advanced lipid analysis.  Dr. Ehrlich is now the medical director for Atherotech which is a national leader in advanced lipid testing. 

According to Dr. Ehrlich the core of an annual assessment will build upon a careful history and physical conducted by the physician and incorporate comprehensive imaging as well as blood biomarker analysis.  For the typical middle-aged adult, Dr. Ehrlich felt that it was important to emphasize screening for coronary artery disease and common cancers such as colon, breast, lung, prostate and skin.  The trend for the future is to expand biomarkers especially those reflecting inflammation (and to incorporate genetic markers as well). 

The entire interview is available as a pod cast.